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December 06, 2009

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tim

Welcome to vimland, Ben.

Ben Rady

Thanks, Tim, it's good to be here.

jommy

welcome to the war against emacs, ben

Giorgio Sironi

>If I could add methods, remove classes, rename variables and add new statements in the blink of an eye
How do you performs such refactorings in Vim? I am learning too. :)

Ben Rady

Depends on the language you're using. If you're working in Python, try Rope. I'm still looking for a good Ruby refactoring plugin.

Kevin Taylor

Great to see another convert. The learning curve is steep but the rewards are great.

Les Stroud

Would you be willing to post some screencasts showing the differences from a productivity perspective?

Ben Rady

I don't have one handy, but here's a good example. I have yet to find a way to do many of the things in this screencast in TextMate...

http://blog.extracheese.org/2009/11/refactoring_a_cyclomatic_complexity_script.html

Gary Bernhardt

With both Vim and Emacs, there's always more to learn, and always more power to uncover, which makes them perfect for those of us who don't know the words "good enough." :) Of course, Emacs users are eventually defeated by RSI, while Vim users eventually attain editor Enlightenment! [0.9 ;)]

Isa Goksu

I don't quite get why you switched :) Is this because there was a learning curve?

To me all these Vi and Emacs folks live in Plato's sunworld :) I admit that Vi and Emacs can be really powerful if you manage to press 7 keys in a consecutive order :) Lots of plugins for both of them, and you can do magical things with them, but you must keep 300 combinations in your mind.

TextMate or any other editor is not a silver-bullet. I've been using Vi (8 years) and TextMate (3 years). And the only disadvantage of TextMate that I found is, it's not working in SSH connections :) Here is some shortcuts for your summary of a ideal development environment items:

1. Actions are accessible without switching contexts (try ⌘⌃+T)
2. Feedback is immediate and relevant (this is only valid for big IDEs like IntellijJ, Visual Studio or Eclipse)
3. The environment is self documenting (vi or emacs are definitely not in this group :) for TextMate try: ⌘+T, ⌘⇧+T, ⌘⌃+T, ⌃⇧+P sort of shortcuts or check bundle editor for any sort of access or documentation)
4. The environment is easily evolved (I think pretty much all editors are easily evolving in these days)

Maybe I'm wrong, but so far there is not much of a thing that I can't do in TextMate. Instead of watching fancy Vi screencasts, maybe people should try watching TextMate screencasts :P

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